That she actually is so called suggests that she had particular demand for Susanna

This new genealogists all of the think about it extreme you to Nicholas’ spouse Clementia are provided here because the, less than regular things, she’d not said. Whenever Susanna during the specific later on go out gotten over to an alternate protector, the new spouse of these guardian wasn’t stated.

This would imply that Queen John invested a little while there and you will the potential for a keen amorous liaison that have Clementia exists

Below is an idea complex from the certain eminent genealogists, but it is fair to say that the fresh conclusions is hotly competitive!

It idea leads to a delightful and you can curious ‘twist’ on facts out-of Joanna, that may interest admirers off HBD!

At first glance, there would be nothing to recommend people connection between your hostage, Susanna off Wales and Clementia, partner out-of Nicholas de- Verdun. Yet not, sensation of specific genealogists with foreign hostages, such as youths, could have been that they have been have a tendency to placed which have relatives, if any was available.

Jumping toward 1236, there was an entrance throughout the Tewkesbury annals and this applies to Joanna’s mom given that “Queen Clemencie!” It checks out to some Malesialainen-naiset, jotka ovat treffissa meissГ¤ extent:

Now, it is known that the mother off Joanna is titled Clementia (Clemence?

In this situation the monk are plainly indulging when you look at the medieval legalism. Before their own dying, Joanna was legitimised from the Pope. On the basis of that legitimisation, the fresh Tewksbury monk obviously grabbed it upon themselves to raise Joanna’s mother into the position off King, because if their unique mom ended up being King John’s wife! It is a fact but not, you to definitely Queen John and you may Clementia had been never ever hitched. Of the dealing with Joanna’s mother as the “Queen” Clementia, new monk who filed Joanna’s death try indicating their high value getting Joanna, yet not attempting to alter the genuine issues.

As for the identity out of Clementia de- Verdun, Paget shows that she are the fresh child out of Roger de Dauntsey, out-of Wiltshire. That genealogist considers it significant one Clementia acclaimed out-of Wiltshire because he’s got realized that King John had a strong connection in order to one to state, they being the house out of their most trusted partners, the Longespee, ilies and Geoffrey Fitz Peter.

Genealogists have found that the term ‘Clementia’ is actually really rare certainly one of English noblewomen regarding the period. In one single dining table away from women’s names that has been built-up, there were simply a few occurrences of your own label “Clementia” off a total of 1407 women in this new test! The reality that some body titled Clementia might be of Susanna is known as extreme.

So! Evidence is suggestive, but not conclusive, that from inside the 1228, Susanna, as a beneficial hostage, obtained out over new proper care of their maternal grandma, today spouse of Nicholas de Verdun!!

The newest Scottish genealogists of the MacDuffs’ hold you to Susanna ferch Llywelyn was born 1214 from inside the Gwynnedd, Wales and passed away c. 1259 in Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She partnered Malcolm MacDuff, Earl out-of Fife during the 1230 along with a few youngsters: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl out-of Fife, produced 1245, passed away 1270 and you will MacDuff MacDuff produced 1247.

Obviously, discover counter arguments to all or any so it supposition! King John got many mistresses and maybe up to eight illegitimate youngsters. Mom off Joanna would have been produced circa 1172 and marriageable circa 1184. Joanna herself was given birth to circa 1191 (14 years old in the course of their unique matrimony so you’re able to Llywelyn). Rohese, the fresh identified legitimate daughter out-of Nicholas de Verdun with his wife Clementia came to be circa 1210-1213. If Clementia are mom off Joanna, she’d come into their unique later 30’s, very early 40’s when having a baby so you’re able to Rohese! Maybe not hopeless, some state, but not likely.